Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

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zasukurabu
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Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by zasukurabu » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:31 am

Hi All,

Earlier was trying to find out if anyone else has beef with mstgman. Was not disappointed.

I love 40cal and like to play in the DM server - as long as mstgman is not around. To quote a few other people dared to post here, he obviously has anger management issues - got better of him in game? took advantage of tiny bit of wall spamming (without warning, and thanks to him I don't even try the slightest)? You will be kicked / set on fire. Sometimes it just happened without any background - he was not in a good mood, that's it. End of story. Angry enough to rant? Ban for you my friend. It (sans the ban part - I rarely express my anger nowadays...) had happened to me multiple times, so much so that I would check out server info and whenever I see him in server even speccing or AFK, I refuse to connect. If admin got a bit of free time you can see from the server logs. I guess every time I connect in the future I would have to do precautionary demos, just as someone had mentioned here...

I can only recall one incident with msgtman where I was really in the wrong - it was approx 1 yr ago where I did M249 spam in poolday. Was repeatedly kicked and I was annoyed enough to bad mouth him. That earned me a 14d ban. After that I learned my lesson and didn't dare to wall spam even the slightest. But when we were both in the server, it just kept happening - random kicks and setting on fire. You really have to be a saint to not let his conduct get on your nerves.

Again, I love to play in 40cal, lots of good players, and after moving to the west coast the ping is unbeatable. But it's fair to say what happened to me wasn't an isolated case (I love that he repeatedly used "banned the wrong person was trying to ban a hacker bla bla" as his excuse. Come on man, what about the mass arson part? You do that even in maps like fy_snow? Come on no one was even camping). I do understand mstgman has played an important part for the website / crew, but he has to do better and it doesn't look good for the 40cal brand. I would really appreciate any form of help from other fellow senior members of the 40cal crew.

Best,
IGN - Skrub / Messthetics / NAS | Skrub
Steam ID - STEAM_0:1:69102625
Last edited by zasukurabu on Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DIvech
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by DIvech » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:49 am

Welcome to our forums!
As im not a fan of banning people for spamming or ranting i personally don't go for it if not excessive or hurting the server in any way, it seems that its getting results!
Mstgman gave you a lesson and you learned how to behave :idea:
You are free to make demos and we will fairly review them :arrow:

As far as your complaint goes, there is only one person who could address it and unfortunately that is not me, so i could only hope you enjoy our servers!
"Now the sky is trembling and the moon is pale
We're on the edge of forever and we're never gonna fail..."
"The road to power is paved with hypocrisy, and casualties."

mstgman
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by mstgman » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:14 pm

zasukurabu wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:31 am Hi All,

Earlier was trying to find out if anyone else has beef with mstgman. Was not disappointed.

I love 40cal and like to play in the DM server - as long as mstgman is not around. To quote a few other people dared to post here, he obviously has anger management issues - got better of him in game? took advantage of tiny bit of wall spamming (without warning, and thanks to him I don't even try the slightest)? You will be kicked / set on fire. Sometimes it just happened without any background - he was not in a good mood, that's it. End of story. Angry enough to rant? Ban for you my friend. It (sans the ban part - I rarely express my anger nowadays...) had happened to me multiple times, so much so that I would check out server info and whenever I see him in server even speccing or AFK, I refuse to connect. If admin got a bit of free time you can see from the server logs. I guess every time I connect in the future I would have to do precautionary demos, just as someone had mentioned here...

I can only recall one incident with msgtman where I was really in the wrong - it was approx 1 yr ago where I did M249 spam in poolday. Was repeatedly kicked and I was annoyed enough to bad mouth him. That earned me a 14d ban. After that I learned my lesson and didn't dare to wall spam even the slightest. But when we were both in the server, it just kept happening - random kicks and setting on fire. You really have to be a saint to not let his conduct get on your nerves.

Again, I love to play in 40cal, lots of good players, and after moving to the west coast the ping is unbeatable. But it's fair to say what happened to me wasn't an isolated case (I love that he repeatedly used "banned the wrong person was trying to ban a hacker bla bla" as his excuse. Come on man, what about the mass arson part? You do that even in maps like fy_snow? Come on no one was even camping). I do understand mstgman has played an important part for the website / crew, but he has to do better and it doesn't look good for the 40cal brand. I would really appreciate any form of help from other fellow senior members of the 40cal crew.

Best,
IGN - Skrub / Messthetics / NAS | Skrub
Steam ID - STEAM_0:1:69102625


First & foremost lets keep it about the game & not attack me personally because you dont know who, how, or what kind of person I am. For you to attack me personally in or on a game really shows what kind of person you are & what I have to deal with on a daily basis. I'm always in a good mood & I dont let this game get to my emotions, it's a game! I have even banned myself a couple of times on accident! (just ask rip) So an accident ban does happen. When I joined 40cal I vowed to obey & respect all rules & enforce them. The rules were there before me & for a reason. I have asked you several times on mic to stop with spamming, so i set you on fire, buried, turned you into a rocket, etc. a couple of times to get your attention with no success, you came back after i kicked you getting mouthy with me so i guess i banned you. I don't remember giving you a 14 day ban & what it was for over a year ago. If you come into our server all i ask is for you to be respectful to rules, other players & watch your language because we have kids playing here. I am not out to hold grudges against anyone

zasukurabu
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by zasukurabu » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:47 pm

mstgman wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:14 pm
zasukurabu wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:31 am Hi All,

Earlier was trying to find out if anyone else has beef with mstgman. Was not disappointed.

I love 40cal and like to play in the DM server - as long as mstgman is not around. To quote a few other people dared to post here, he obviously has anger management issues - got better of him in game? took advantage of tiny bit of wall spamming (without warning, and thanks to him I don't even try the slightest)? You will be kicked / set on fire. Sometimes it just happened without any background - he was not in a good mood, that's it. End of story. Angry enough to rant? Ban for you my friend. It (sans the ban part - I rarely express my anger nowadays...) had happened to me multiple times, so much so that I would check out server info and whenever I see him in server even speccing or AFK, I refuse to connect. If admin got a bit of free time you can see from the server logs. I guess every time I connect in the future I would have to do precautionary demos, just as someone had mentioned here...

I can only recall one incident with msgtman where I was really in the wrong - it was approx 1 yr ago where I did M249 spam in poolday. Was repeatedly kicked and I was annoyed enough to bad mouth him. That earned me a 14d ban. After that I learned my lesson and didn't dare to wall spam even the slightest. But when we were both in the server, it just kept happening - random kicks and setting on fire. You really have to be a saint to not let his conduct get on your nerves.

Again, I love to play in 40cal, lots of good players, and after moving to the west coast the ping is unbeatable. But it's fair to say what happened to me wasn't an isolated case (I love that he repeatedly used "banned the wrong person was trying to ban a hacker bla bla" as his excuse. Come on man, what about the mass arson part? You do that even in maps like fy_snow? Come on no one was even camping). I do understand mstgman has played an important part for the website / crew, but he has to do better and it doesn't look good for the 40cal brand. I would really appreciate any form of help from other fellow senior members of the 40cal crew.

Best,
IGN - Skrub / Messthetics / NAS | Skrub
Steam ID - STEAM_0:1:69102625


First & foremost lets keep it about the game & not attack me personally because you dont know who, how, or what kind of person I am. For you to attack me personally in or on a game really shows what kind of person you are & what I have to deal with on a daily basis. I'm always in a good mood & I dont let this game get to my emotions, it's a game! I have even banned myself a couple of times on accident! (just ask rip) So an accident ban does happen. When I joined 40cal I vowed to obey & respect all rules & enforce them. The rules were there before me & for a reason. I have asked you several times on mic to stop with spamming, so i set you on fire, buried, turned you into a rocket, etc. a couple of times to get your attention with no success, you came back after i kicked you getting mouthy with me so i guess i banned you. I don't remember giving you a 14 day ban & what it was for over a year ago. If you come into our server all i ask is for you to be respectful to rules, other players & watch your language because we have kids playing here. I am not out to hold grudges against anyone
Hi there bud, first and foremost I am by no means "attacking" you personally - stating the facts is far from that, and you're just putting forth a straw man. You set me on fire at least 3 times I could remember (actually, two of which being the entire CT team - you were playing T). One I clearly remember being in de_westwood, a 3v3 (or sth close) situation - just how you can spam over there?

I consider myself among the most civilized players across all the servers - I play on NAS (for sure), TopFrag, ugamers, recently VHL and here, along with multiple D2 servers before. I actually don't talk that much let alone trash talk someone, and when I do I just joke around. I never had a beef with anyone else. I did accuse you once or twice before because you were being outrageous, simple as that, and I could have used much much harsher language (so I don't think I'd need to "watch my language"). Also most of the time I don't play with sound on (too poor to afford a headset, just recently got a budget one) so I couldn't really hear you talking to the mic. Will in game text help ease some of the tension? Definitely so.

But again, that's just not the point. You are over exaggerating the situation here and trying to shift the blame - there isn't so-called "a couple of times to get my attention with no success" as I wasn't even trying to spam as much. See I get you that you wanted me to stop spamming since the poolday fiasco so I tried my best to resist my temptation. Just again - how do you spam in de_westwood? If you really insist that spam / walling is against the rules, I think there's a pretty simple solution - you can just ask rip to make walls impenetrable across the maps. Now everyone will be happy.

I would like to reiterate that your general conduct is independent of my / other players' wrongdoings (as I stated above, mine were really low in terms of seriousness; I wonder if theirs were actually similar). A little bit of anger management would be really nice and make the gaming experience for everyone else much more pleasant. I took some time to go through some of the earliest comments on you and your conduct, and if you like I can link them as well in my post - that will save you some time and clicks.

As another fellow admin commented above, looks like there's only one person's voice that can be of help (I'm assuming it's rip) so I will just leave this here and let him be the judge (again, I appreciate it.)

All the Best,
Skrub

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rip
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by rip » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:59 pm

It'd be nice if you could both just sort this out in a reasonable, peaceful way, like shooting each other in the face. (In game, just sayin')

I've said it before, bans are pretty much for people disrupting the game or the enjoyment of it anyway.

Like most of us, I play to unwind, so not super interested in really dealing with people. I was social distancing before it was cool, one reason I don't wear a tag (plus it's easier to swoop in and nail hackers). Rather run around and murder players...

A light touch is better than a heavy handed one, and I often reiterate that in the admin forums and PMs. If someone is seriously affecting the game (hacking, etc.) they are fair game. This doesn't sound like that.

I will occasionally set someone on fire, and if it's a team, usually my own for being camping cowards. :) There are not a lot of legitimate times to do that, but ya, it's fun, and somewhat funny, to a point, then we have issues. It tilts the other way and starts disrupting the game.

All warnings should be in text (even then it's amazing how many times people don't see it.) When you have an AK clacking in your ears, it's easy to miss, though I try to have my mic be annoying clear.

While you two don't need to kiss and make up, I basically do expect you both to go forward and not try to overtly annoy each other. I try to be pretty consistent and even keeled on the expectations. Sometimes it wavers a bit but it's not the end of the world.
rip

Build a fire for a man, you keep him warm that night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

zasukurabu
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by zasukurabu » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:37 pm

rip wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:59 pm It'd be nice if you could both just sort this out in a reasonable, peaceful way, like shooting each other in the face. (In game, just sayin')

I've said it before, bans are pretty much for people disrupting the game or the enjoyment of it anyway.

Like most of us, I play to unwind, so not super interested in really dealing with people. I was social distancing before it was cool, one reason I don't wear a tag (plus it's easier to swoop in and nail hackers). Rather run around and murder players...

A light touch is better than a heavy handed one, and I often reiterate that in the admin forums and PMs. If someone is seriously affecting the game (hacking, etc.) they are fair game. This doesn't sound like that.

I will occasionally set someone on fire, and if it's a team, usually my own for being camping cowards. :) There are not a lot of legitimate times to do that, but ya, it's fun, and somewhat funny, to a point, then we have issues. It tilts the other way and starts disrupting the game.

All warnings should be in text (even then it's amazing how many times people don't see it.) When you have an AK clacking in your ears, it's easy to miss, though I try to have my mic be annoying clear.

While you two don't need to kiss and make up, I basically do expect you both to go forward and not try to overtly annoy each other. I try to be pretty consistent and even keeled on the expectations. Sometimes it wavers a bit but it's not the end of the world.
Hi there rip, thanks for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate the message.

I'm cool with letting bygones be bygones and moving on, and I hope mstgman could be as well.

With that said, if you look at this entire board nearly half of the posts were dedicated to mstgman with some having nearly identical experience as mine. Almost the same accusations, almost the same excuses from mstgman, and always the same result - he was always able to get away with it in the end. I don't know how many disheartened players among those OPs had left and never stepped into the server again. These posts spanned years and just earlier this month he was again confronted by someone like me. Could it be his issue, not the rules, for all these complaints to constantly appear? If the rules were set to be draconian then I somewhat expect the complaints to be evenly spread across all admins, but no.

If it was indeed due to unclear rules, will the solution I mentioned above (disable walling completely through technical means) significantly reduce the number of cases in this board? I don't know. Maybe worth a try?

I would really appreciate it if you as the site owner could please make all the rules clear (apparently currently the definition of "spamming" is vague and contentious) and, if possible, try to address the issue with mstgman one-on-one. Although I have the NAS tag I never asked for admin access even though they were clearly shortstaffed - I know my skills aren't there yet to spot more sophisticated hax. I always believe that such admin roles are for the most capable and fittest, and the privileges are more than prone to abuse. If mstgman has difficulty exercising his power justly it could well be as problematic as the hax themselves.

Again, thank you for your time. Just randomly blabbered a lot. Take care all and hf.

Skrub

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DIvech
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by DIvech » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:15 pm

As another fellow admin commented above, looks like there's only one person's voice that can be of help (I'm assuming it's rip) so I will just leave this here and let him be the judge (again, I appreciate it.)
You've actually got me wrong on that one, its mstgman and only mstgman who can help resolve this one :arrow:

As far as admin abuse topics go, I've had some and those actually helped me out on tweaking my ban hammer a little :geek:

Actually my first admin abuse complaint was before i was even an admin here, i dont even remember the exact location it was posted, but i guess its in the wrong place :lol:

+1 on resolving differences with kindly shooting eachother in the face :mrgreen:
"Now the sky is trembling and the moon is pale
We're on the edge of forever and we're never gonna fail..."
"The road to power is paved with hypocrisy, and casualties."

zasukurabu
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:13 pm

Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by zasukurabu » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:58 am

DIvech wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:15 pm
As another fellow admin commented above, looks like there's only one person's voice that can be of help (I'm assuming it's rip) so I will just leave this here and let him be the judge (again, I appreciate it.)
You've actually got me wrong on that one, its mstgman and only mstgman who can help resolve this one :arrow:

As far as admin abuse topics go, I've had some and those actually helped me out on tweaking my ban hammer a little :geek:

Actually my first admin abuse complaint was before i was even an admin here, i dont even remember the exact location it was posted, but i guess its in the wrong place :lol:

+1 on resolving differences with kindly shooting eachother in the face :mrgreen:
Hey DIvech, thanks for sharing your story and that's exactly what I look forward to seeing in my case here.

You're right - its mstgman and only mstgman who can help resolve this one. I do see, however, that he's maybe one of the few five-star generals that are still active here. Suppose, just suppose, he is reluctant to own up to his unreasonable behavior, who is there to check him? I guess only rip (no pun intended - is sammy around?).

If you take some time to look at the previous posts directed at mstgman, you could see he repeatedly used the same excuses to deflect the accusations. It's also sad to see some fellow admins being out there playing the "blame the victims" game. Like I said, the issue has been going on for years. It's something chronic and at least it looks like mstgman himself hasn't tried to actively change in a way you had done yourself, and no one had offered anything constructive really. It kept being swept under the carpet. I did notice that most of the posts failed to reach (?) rip, maybe the only one that has supervision over mstgman, so I strove to get my message across to him.

I myself like many others would like to see this issue resolved once and for all, and I hope to achieve a positive outcome. I also hope my post doesn't end here.

Thanks,
Skrub

mstgman
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Re: Mstgman Enjoys Being Arbitrary - Been the Victim Multiple Times

Post by mstgman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:07 am

The change goes both ways! All I asked is for people to respect admins, other players, watch their language & obey the rules. Maybe we can change some of the rules for players to understand them better such as wall-banging & spamming which I see as the same but other players see differently. Come in and play & have some fun.

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